CWP alum Cheng-Chwee Kuik on East Asia Pulse Podcast

Southeast Asia isn’t choosing sides—it’s hedging.

EAI Deputy Director Dr Chen Gang speaks with Prof Cheng-Chwee Kuik of the National University of Malaysia about how Southeast Asian countries are navigating intensifying U.S.-China tensions.

Prof Kuik unpacks the logic of hedging—why it’s a deliberate, adaptive strategy—and reflects on how the region’s deepening ties with China bring both opportunities and risks.

Key Highlights:  

00:00 How Southeast Asia-China relations have evolved in recent years  
 
03:59 How pragmatic considerations drive Southeast Asian states’ hedging policies  
   
09:40 The evolution of “dual hierarchies” in the Asian order, with the US traditionally leading the security hierarchy and China leading the economic hierarchy. 
 
13:46 Potential risks and challenges amid growing economic ties between Southeast Asia and China 
 
16:44 Future trends in Southeast Asia-China relations 

 This podcast episode was recorded on 29 May, 2025.

East Asia Pulse is a podcast produced by the East Asian Institute at the National University of Singapore (NUS). It provides in-depth analyses of political, economic and strategic trends in East Asia.

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"How do SEA countries hedge against US-China rivalry? With Prof Cheng-Chwee Kuik" East Asia Pulse

Cheng-Chwee Kuik (郭清水) is Professor of International Relations at the Institute of Malaysian and International Studies (IKMAS), National University of Malaysia (UKM). He is concurrently a Non-resident Fellow at Johns Hopkins’ Foreign Policy Institute. Previously, Cheng-Chwee was a Postdoctoral Research Associate at the Princeton-Harvard “China and the World” Program and a Visiting Research Fellow at Oxford University’s Department of Politics and International Relations. Professor Kuik’s research focuses on smaller state foreign policy, Asian security, and international relations. He served as Head of the Writing Team for the Government of Malaysia’s inaugural Defence White Paper (2020). Cheng-Chwee’s publications have appeared in peer-reviewed journals and edited books. Dr. Kuik’s essay, “The Essence of Hedging”, won the Michael Leifer Memorial Prize awarded by the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies. He is co-editor (with Alice Ba and Sueo Sudo) of Institutionalizing East Asia (2016), co-author (with David M. Lampton and Selina Ho) of Rivers of Iron: Railroads and Chinese Power in Southeast Asia (2020), and author of the chapter on ASEAN and Southeast Asian states for David Shambaugh’s International Relations of Asia, 3rd edition (2022). His current projects include: hedging in international relations, elite legitimation and foreign policy choices, and the geopolitics of infrastructure connectivity cooperation. Cheng-Chwee serves on the editorial boards/committees of Contemporary Southeast Asia, Australian Journal of International Affairs, Asian Politics and Policy, International Journal of Asian Studies, and East Asian Policy. He is a member of the newly established Council on Indo-Pacific Relations (CIPR), EWC in Washington (EWCW). He holds an M.Litt. from the University of St. Andrews and a PhD from Johns Hopkins University.

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